Tournamenthouse.com Forums

SS_Ivan · Captain

Just one question, where are the pistols/rifles for the AT guns? My 7.5cm Pak was completely overrun by a rifle team, without posing any resistence.

Ivan

manstein101 · 2nd Lt.

I think the game was or is fine with no improvements, if the croc or hfp gunned jammed then yeah it sucked but it was part of the game just like tanks throwing a track in CC3. It happened in real life so why introduce something for the sake of losing realism.

Maybe we should rename the game \"cc2 utopia\". A game where your gun never jams!

I have heard some support for the patch and some hesitancy and reluctance.

What we haven\'t heard is the voices of about 100 players. The majority counts not the voices of the popular few.

We should of had a vote like that cpt_abrams and Peiper ladder opp thing.

Now their will be division and confusion, like the real red patch in cc3. But eventually this was sorted with the config manager.

I hope this patch doesn\'t scare people away from the game.

I will be getting the patch(well i have just installed it) because i feel it offers advantages(If you don\'t get it and your opponent has it and they can utilise the new features well then you\'re disadvantaged) but some improvements i am against.

PS
Does every unit have to have (sx3) on it(Just a tad annoying and on the too conspicuos side). Why not just the improved and introduced units. Or maybe just the letters: sx

SS_Ivan · Captain

Im all for the vote, If people do adept the patch then we should start a petition or something, so microsoft could make it official and there would be no confusion or having newbies get confused and scared.

Ivan

SS_Frundsberg · Corporal

Do we need Microsoft\'s approval for a patch (i.e. is there any copyright issues)? If we don\'t, then don\'t bother. I agree 100% that we should have a vote to make this a \'standard\' patch. If only some of us use the patch and others don\'t, then we\'re not going have as many ladders games due to the discripencies of player machines. Let setup a vote and do this thing... I for one like the patch and what it fixes (especially with the Tiger and the darn \'blind\' zooks).

Frunds

Homba · Site Admin

Heres how I see it. Forget about asking microsoft about anything. They aren\'t going to go to any trouble for a few 100 players (max) of a 5+ year old game. This patch is out there. It is an OPTION.

Seven has made it extremely easy to swap back and forth between versions. Correct me if Im wrong Seven, but the way I do it is just keep both the INSTALL and UNINSTALL icons on my desktop. One click is all it takes to install the patch, and to uninstall it (return to the original). Now if you are in the zone, you have both options. If someone wants a (sx3) game, install the patch. If someone wants a 2.0 game, put in the original files (click the UNINSTALL icon) and go at it.

I think most everyone will eventually switch over to sx3, because this patch is a good product. It is good for ladder play, because it puts the emphasis on skill. I disagree with Manstein about the no-break/jam. A gun jamming is no reflection on my or my opponent\'s skill. It is pure luck- but it is crucial to the outcome. We aren\'t playing ladder games as an exercise in luck. It is supposed to be about skill. Why have a whole game ruined by a flamer jamming? That is not my idea of fun. That is the AI screwing you over. It is one bit of \"realism\" I can live without in a game that is supposed to be a test of skill.

H

Homba · Site Admin

Ivan, the AT-gun pistol crew was not implemented. Has Seven posted a final change list at his site and with the download?

Yes, he has:

[quote]CC2 NEW 3.0 Patch- Weapons fixes. The following are covered in 3.0:1. Tiger frontal armor upped slightly. 2. Jam/Break on Croc and Hetz repaired. 3. Jam/Break fixed on BAR 3. Jam/Break fixed on FG42 4. BAR ammo upped to 240rds. 5. Bren ammo upped to 224rds. 6. AB .30 cal ammo upped to 1,250rds. 7. Minimum ranges on all AT launchers reduced to 5m. 8. Zook, Shreck and Faust PB range of 15m 9. Zook, Shreck and Faust Close range of 30m 10. Faust medium range 40m 11. Gammon switched to direct fire. 12. Germans now have 1 man flamers, 12,14 points. 13. All flame teams have a pistol as a secondary weapon. 14. Jam/Break on FG42 fixed. 15. Demo Charge minimum range up 1m and accuracy upped slightly. 16. 105mm Has 30 HE rounds and 5 HEAT. 17. Text fixes on Daimler, M3A2 HT, M3A1 HT, and Flammenwerfer teams.[/quote]

Homba · Site Admin

I disagree with manstein about removing the (sx3) tags from the units. The whole point of doing this was to identify the patch. Someone who is using 2.0 as guest will see the tag and know there opponent is using sx3, and stop the game, and install the patch or ask the opp to use 2.0 or whatever.

If you take away the tags, you lose this feature- and I think it is an important feature!

Seven\'s solution was to put it only on snipers? I don\'t think this works. Most people (if they are smart) I think choose a few units when looking at the map, especially an AT gun or tank, just to find spots for these, LOS, etc. If you choose a unit, you don\'t get the default sniper! Thus the benefit of the tags is lost again- another opportunity for the guest to realize the host is using sx3 is gone, and the problem remains unaddressed- and will probably provoke the wrath of the unknowing player later on.

Also- a lot of people play \"standard maps\" (Kinnes, SS Arn West, etc.) WITHOUT LOOKING AT ALL. How will they know the host is or is not using the patch!?!? Problems, problems if they don\'t know.

(sx3) is the best inconspicuous tag we could think of. Just sticking a \"3\" out there is hardly visible. Maybe \"3\" or v3 is sufficient? I don\'t know. There does need to be a \"3\" in there somewhere, because if there is a version \"4\" that will be the easy way to tell them apart.

I think the whole \"distraction\" thing will pass- you are just not used to it right now, it is new and strange looking. Soon you won\'t even see it. Small price to pay for the improvments.

Solutions- is there a way to make the tag appear in the soldier menu, next to each unit, but NOT in the main map next to the unit? This would seem to satisfy manstein, but is much less noticable (though possibly still sufficient) if it was my call, I\'d say it is insufficient.

The tag (sx3) is there for a reason. It addresses an identified problem: not knowing the host is using the patch. I think it is a mistake to remove the tag. People need every possible signal to know the host is using the patch. If they don\'t know, there will be a lot of arguments and fights caused. Preventing this is why the tag is important.

I am assuming that most players will remember to tell their opponent they are using the patch most of the time. But not all, and not always. The tag is the safeguard!

[edit] I have seen the new version with the Sniper 3.0 now. Of course I like it. It is minimally intrusive. But I wonder if it is enough to address the problem. My view of the text tag is it is a necessary evil.

H

manstein101 · 2nd Lt.

The battlemaker force selection says zooks effective range is 8-80m. Has anyone ever seen a zook hit below 8m.

It\'s just i have played twice now where i have had a zook on ambush in a 2 storey building miss a HFP side back shot at 7m.

Seven does you patch make it possible so that zooks hit below 8m or wasn\'t this addressed.

About the (sx3) i sort of don\'t notice it any more so forget about my comments on erasing it. I just saw what mods and patches did to CC3 so i left. But well done on your efforts i still haven\'t managed to throw a gammon from a building yet though smile

CPTAbrams · 1st Lt.

Well just to let you all know. Throwing a gammon out of a 3 story now works extremely well. Saturday night my Brit AB Rifle team had a celebration from a 3rd story window as they watched a dreaded tiger sit in flames smile

manstein101 · 2nd Lt.

Just noticed Brit reg and AB Bren have 224 rounds, but Polish bren only have 140 rounds.

Seven did you forget the polish team or was it intentional. Sometimes i use them if i can\'t afford the 9 points.

Luft_Conor · 1st Lt.

Maybe its to do with supply issues....ie. Polish Troops not having the full loadout?

Conman

Homba · Site Admin

Manstein, the patch does lower all AT launcher\'s minimum range to 5m. (This is stated in the fix-list for the patch). The fact that your zook shot at all at 7m means that the patch is working. That you missed demonstrates that all \"bad luck\" is not eliminated! smile

The point about the polish Bren team ammo is valid. Ideally i think it should be upped to match the brits. I think it is natural that little changes will come along like this. My suggestion to seven is to start doing a numbered release system for each change.
(sx3)
(sx3.1)
(sx3.2)
etc.

And update the change list, adding what the new change was for the new version.

Maybe the text tag should be 3.1, 3.2 etc. \'(sx3.2)\' is seven characters long- a long tag....

H

SevenX2 · Lt. Colonel

Yes i did forget all about the polish bren smile

My bad there. I will release a secondary edition next monday with anything we find out inn this thread etc. things that need to be fixed yet? post them here and i will fix them before outputting final version on next monday. big grin

Problem with AT guns i think is the minimum range of 10m for a HE round, they wont stop loading the main gun and use pistols etc until the enemy is -10m which we all know is too late, I think if we raised the minimum range they would fire with rifles etc before the enemy was in close combat range. I do not know if this is an option or not feedback would be great on that one because you are giving up min range then. Also most of the AP rounds have 6m minimum. So they will load the gun down to 6 m and then too late gun is overrun already.

**UPDATE**
I did move the minum range up of the 57mm for a test and the crews do fire there small arms after the enemy moves under minimum range of the guns I moved the HE range up to 15m and the AP range up to 14m. And they open up with there small arms at anything getting closer than 14m. Thoughts?

Also did some work on the tag issue I put a 3.0 tag on all infantry units. Which i was fairly sure everyone takes atleast one infantry unit??? This should work well.

Just a quick note on melee combat the range for melee is 6m long range, which explains why crews wouldnt fire pistols etc they were already engaged in melee by the time the AT gun was too close ot fire.

SevenX2 · Lt. Colonel

I have something important to announce i have managed to get AT guns to move. Question: Do we want this in the patch or not??? I need some feedback on this i was thinking of putting it in but only for the small at guns such as the 5cm and under germans and the 57mm and 6 pdr. Of course they will move very slowly.

GooN · Lt. Colonel

I noticed that the regular german army sniper has the \"3.0\" tag in it\'s name in the selection screen. But the SS sniper does not. SevenX, did you only alter the army sniper? If so, why?

Of course the SS and AB snipers (and all other units) would be better trained and more experienced than regular army units. Thus, the SS/AB sniper should have the better accuracy, experience, etc.