Tournamenthouse.com Forums

Ant_Spawn · Colonel

Wooo lots of smoke.
that looks like fun... lots of \"Dude, I cant see your tank!\"

But is the amount of smoke realistic? Anyone seen the amount of smoke a WWII 80mm mortor can produce?

sfkeg2 · Major

I would like to see the smoke changed to suit different units.
A- INF -STAYS THE SAME
B -60 MORTAR - INCREASED BY 1
C -81 MM MORTARS - INCREASED BY 2
D -ARMOR AND H/T\'S USE MAXIMUM SMOKE

*obviously this is for all nations.

In my opinion this would reflect the ability to carry the larger shells and would be more indicative of the times.Is anyone else interested in seeing the smoke effects made to reflect the unit using it?

TogashiD · Major

Keg said:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Tog , I have the program but when i open it all the info is on the top two lines.How can i make it like the screens you sent me?
Thnx in advance.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Keg, the prob is you are using Version 2.0
I had to unzip mine to figure it out. I don\'t use that version.
I use Version 1.0
I will email you a copy.

kreiger0 · Captain

I like the idea of changing the smoke and having it vary on size of weapon. Are other changes being considered, so they can be bundled in a v 3.2 or something?
K0

sfkeg2 · Major

Tog, the following error keeps coming up when i use the program you sent.

******* caused an invalid page fault in
module *******.EXE at 0187:004011a0.
Registers:
EAX=01318ae8 CS=0187 EIP=004011a0 EFLGS=00010297
EBX=00000000 SS=018f ESP=0069f618 EBP=0000006f
ECX=0069f660 DS=018f ESI=01710000 FS=43cf
EDX=01318a09 ES=018f EDI=0069f640 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
88 16 8b 01 46 40 89 01 80 38 00 75 e5 6a ff 8b
Stack dump:
ffffffff 0000007c 00000001 00401310 0069f660 0069f640 00200cfe 00ee0a20 0069f6a0 00000000 0170f018 00dd4520 00dd4520 004583cc 0069f694 00443b90

Program name changed to protect the innocent

Homba · Site Admin

I\'d like to see a better graphic representing the different possible coverage sizes of smoke. I looked at the first set of pics Togashi posted, but I cant make much of them. One is single rounds, one is bunches of single rounds. Maybe you could do a pic showing a single round of smoke of explosion sizes 1-5 (or however it works), all in a row, with labels. Then we\'d all know what we\'re dealing with.

The suggestion has been made to change up the smoke sizes for various weapons. Keg said:

[quote]I would like to see the smoke changed to suit different units.
A- INF -STAYS THE SAME
B -60 MORTAR - INCREASED BY 1
C -81 MM MORTARS - INCREASED BY 2
D -ARMOR AND H/T\'S USE MAXIMUM SMOKE[/quote]

What is an inf smoke grenade? Currently in the game, it is pretty useless, as the quantity of smoke produced is so small (that could be said of one round from most weapons in CC2). My question is: Is not an infantry smoke canister about the same size as an 81mm mortar smoke round? or at least as big as a 60mm smoke round? If so, is there any justification for making the inf smoke smaller than the equivalent mortar version? I say pump up the inf smoke to 81mm level.

I agree 81mm smoke should be a bit bigger than 60mm smoke. And I agree that both could stand to be bigger than they are currently in the game. Zooks can fire smoke too, maybe schrecks as well. Let\'s not leave anything out of the considerations.

Dont forget that some CC2 armor has smoke mortars as well as being able to fire smoke from the main gun. I don\'t object at all to vehicle smoke mortars and any main gun 75mm or bigger being able to launch a maximum sized smoke round (which is probably what an 81mm mortar should launch?). But if we want to be consistent and realistic, then guns smaller than 75mm should launch the 60mm version of smoke, and really small vehicle guns (say from 20-40mm should launch even smaller smoke. From my memory I recall one german HT with I believe a 20mm gun that can deploy a huge screen of smoke due to sheer speed of fire of the smoke rounds, but the individual rounds themselves are not so big.

What we need is first the pictures of various sized smoke bursts. Then we need a list of every vehicle and weapon that can deploy smoke (and their main gun size) AND WHAT SIZE THEIR SMOKE IS CURRENTLY. THEN, we can debate what to change each size to.

That shouldnt be too hard to agree on once we get all the facts out on the table.

Then someone can take the 3.1 patch, and add in the new smoke features. Call it the 3.1 Smoke patch. Someone can do the same for the original version and just call it the smoke patch. So you can play 3.1 with or without the smoke patch, or original CC2 with or without the smoke patch. (People who don\'t like 3.1 will probably not like a smoke patch either, and people who like 3.1 probably will like the smoke patch, so realistically what we\'ll be looking at will be people playing with original, and people playing with 3.1+smoke i.e. \"3.1S\".

If a 3.2 patch ever gets rolling, and the 3.1S patch is well received, the starting point for 3.2 can be 3.1S. But we can go ahead with the smoke patch now, without having to come up with all changes for a hypothetical 3.2 patch.

H

kreiger0 · Captain

I like the idea of changing the smoke and having it vary on size of weapon. Are other changes being considered, so they can be bundled in a v 3.2 or something?
K0

TogashiD · Major

Here are images of the sizes of smoke, ranging from 0-5, using the [u]Blast Size Chart[/u]

Smoke 0
[img]http://208.216.88.101/cc2/Images/Smoke_0.jpg[/img]
-------------------------------
Smoke 1
[img]http://208.216.88.101/cc2/Images/Smoke_1.jpg[/img]
-------------------------------
Smoke 2
[img]http://208.216.88.101/cc2/Images/Smoke_2.jpg[/img]
-------------------------------
Smoke 3
[img]http://208.216.88.101/cc2/Images/Smoke_3.jpg[/img]
-------------------------------
Smoke 4
[img]http://208.216.88.101/cc2/Images/Smoke_4.jpg[/img]
-------------------------------
Smoke 5
[img]http://208.216.88.101/cc2/Images/Smoke_5.jpg[/img]

Homba · Site Admin

great pics Tog! now we\'re talking...

TogashiD · Major

Here is a chart of the weapons that use smoke.
This is from the 3.1 patch.

This shows the sizes -1 to 5
[img]http://208.216.88.101/cc2/Images/Smoke_Dimensions.jpg[/img]
------------------------------

This has been severely cut and pasted not to reveal any other info besides the smoke stats.
[img]http://208.216.88.101/cc2/Images/Smoke_Chart_Stats.jpg[/img]

Homba · Site Admin

Have you figured out the difference between blast size and blast radius? In the pics you showed above, are those BSize 1-5 or BRadius 1-5 ?

What is the difference in-game between a 1BS,5BR smoke and a 5BS,1BR smoke?

If I recall correctly, blast size is just the choice of size of graphic, and the blast radius is actually a radius in meters of effect in the game? I could be seriously wrong here...

And there is some screwy stuff in that table (typical of Atmoic). How does the 81mm US mortar have a 2BS,5BR but the 8cm german mortar has 2BS,0BR ??? It might mean that a smoke screen laid by a german mortar looks nice to us but has no in-game effect on LOS. Im speculating, but if Im wrong, why are the numbers so radically different? Something is weird.

We gota figure this stuff out.

There is clearly some potential here... when tanks pop smoke on their own after being shot at, we might could fix it to where it might actually do some good, unlike now where is it useless!

H

sfkeg2 · Major

Could the difference be indicative of the use of white phos.? Did The Germans use WP?I note the larger at guns also dont have a BR.

soldaten · Corporal

The greasegun is carried by allied afv crews. Its a submachine gun

In rare
cases in a campaign you may see a vehicle get destroyed or
abandoned and in the next battle the crew will show up
without their vehicle and instead act as an infanty
unit carrying the greaseguns. I would like to know what
circumstances cause the greasegun armed crews to show up
since it seems to be an extremely rare thing to occur.
Ive never seen them show up in my own forces but only as
units the computer AI gets during a campaign battle.

TogashiD · Major

I checked the chart and everything that has a Smoke Blast Radius with the exception of,
PIAT and 105mm L/28, uses White Phosphor.

Ant_Spawn · Colonel

oooooo

Can you change the color of the smoke?

I\'d like a purple haze please!!
[img]http://images.google.co.nz/images?q=tbn:LqV6mhatQSYC:www.havic.com/artist/C_Yngstrom/purple%2520haze.jpg[/img]